I'm voting no, because I believe that if a teenaged girl has been raped by her father and become pregnant, it's not the state's job to notify him that she's planning to get an abortion.
There are other reasons, but isn't that one enough?
//The Magic Eight-Ball says, "Do the right thing."\\
38 comments:
If a 23-year old man has sex with and impregnates a 15-year old girl, then pressures her into having an abortion, shouldn't that girl's mother or father have the right to know about this?
Isn't THAT enough reason to vote yes on 43?
Not even close. Compare the two cases and tell me again which is the more urgent.
A baby is a baby it was not the BABIES fault how it was created how do you know that the baby thats mother was raped but she chose to have him, what if this baby is the one that will stop world hunger or end the battle against religious persecution, its not the babies fault, the parents should be notified.
YES ON 43 PLEASE!!
But then again, if the girl had a convincing reason for why she couldn't tell her parents (incest, fear of abuse...) she could always request a confidential hearing with an administrative judge in order to bypass notifying her parents about the abortion.
to the baby lover:
not ONE person will be able to SOLVE world hunger or END religious persecution. SECOND. There is no 'baby' when it comes to an abortion. There is a fetus. With no personality, no morals, no beliefs. You describe the fetus as if it wants to live, as if it yearns to be conceived. ACTUALLY... the fetus has no idea it's alive because, well, it hasn't yet developed a thought process.
okay... and i realize you're against abortion... but this is about the notification to the parents about an abortion. Are you saying that if children have to notify their parents about an abortion that the parent will refuse? You're fighting the wrong battle, bud.
Oh and "the mother" in your rape situation should have a choice. A woman should never be forced to give birth to a child she never consented in creating.
no on 43.
PRO-CHOICE.
The administrative judge does not have to grant the bypass for the young woman. Does it seem a little screwed up to anyone else that a woman who has been raped or molested has to go stand before a judge and plead her case? Ever heard of blaming the victim? This is just inasanity. Why should anyone who has been raped every have to explain their situation to a total stranger? And you call yourselve's Christians? Ha!
To the 3rd anonymous pro-43 poster; you are complete nut.
A COMPLETE NUT!
Poster #1 -
Pressures her into having an abortion? Because it's always such a wonderful idea for a 15 year old girl to have a baby!?? What the heck is wrong with you?
Why aren't we focusing on educating these young women about birth control and plan B so that this situation doesn't happen in the first place? Because the crazies don't think a woman (young or old) should have sex unless it's for the sole purpose of procreation. I'm so tired of this game - if ya'll don't want kids to have abortions, talk to them about sex and birth control.
John, What I find so interesting is that the Republicans are the ones who say the government shouldn't be involved in our lives and yet they're the ones who seem to keep pushing this type of thing down our throats.
If parents are worried about their teens having sex then they should talk to their teens about sex. It's not the governemnt's responsibility to do that, it's a family's responsibility.
I'm flattered that, for once, people are taking an interest in talking things over at my blog.
Let's continue this conversation at the top of the blog:
http://john_m_burt.blogspot.com/2006/09/still-voting-no-on-43.html
Our legal system is based on Stare Decisis, that is, we stand on precedence. Measure 43 stands in stark contrast with a large body of decided law. In the eyes of the law, minors have no volition. They simply cannot legally consent. This fact can be demonstrated in many ways: Statutory rape occurs when a minor child has sex with an adult. Since a child cannot consent to engaging sexual activity it is unlawful. A minor cannot enter into a contract because it is not legally enforceable. As a minor child, you are denied fundamental rights and duties, like those of voting or jury duty.
Instead of having the ability to consent and contract for themselves, parents and/or guardians are given the vast responsibility to protect, nurture, and yes, make these decisions on their behalf. This is done for the protection, not the harm, of the child because parents and/or guardians are generally (hopefully) more well-equipped to handle life’s more important decisions due to life experience.
Measure 43 would restore two fundamental concepts; one is a legal concept, the other a basic human concept. By suddenly respecting (honoring) a child’s volition it necessarily calls into question all other law regarding the rights of minors and parents. If we allow a child to make such an important life-changing decision on there own, why can’t they make a relatively unimportant decision about who our next County Commissioner is; or getting a tattoo? Secondly, this would represent a societal change wherein parents would be abdicating their roles as decision makers for their minor children, effectively admitting that their child is better able to make important decisions than themselves.
I would call for parents to stand up to their inherent and profound responsibility as a parent: protect your children. Without Measure 43 your daughters have a right to make this decision without you, but their right comes at a great cost. It takes away your rights as parents. Vote yes on 43 and take back your responsability as a parent.
Ryan
Anonymous "Ryan", kindly stop throwing apples into my orange basket. We're discussing serious matters, not relative trivia like getting a tattoo, so kindly don't try to trivialize the matter.
Yes, it would be very nice if every young woman contemplating an abortion could sit down with a wise and loving parent and calmly discuss her options. But Measure 43 will not result in those parents being issued to those who don't already have them.
I am old and sick of the though of another woman young or old being forced to go to another state, country, or back ally butcher to have an abortion. First if you feel that a fetus is a BABY then everyones birthday should be changed to the date of conseption. Every still born and miscarried baby should be give a birth and death ceritificate, and a funural. And every man that is old enough to have sex be take to doctor and be castrated so no one can have unwanted babies. Not very nice but until you can walk in a womans shoes stay out of them. Teach your sons to keep a knot in it and there won't be any unwanted babies to have aborted. Vote No on 43
GOD DOESNT EXSIST!
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
GOD ISNT REAL
Geez, go pollute someone else's blog, willya, Spamonymous Repetitious?
what is so annoying, is that we as a society feel that we have to make laws for everything.. if I dont want to have an abortion, that is my right and vice versa. that is the whole meaning of freedom, isnt it? let the individual parents decide what is right for their own children. I shouldnt have to make that decision for you, or anyone else.
It's seems most of you commenting her must be very young and very idealistic.
I had an abortion when I was 17 and it screwed me up emotionally, mentally and physically for 20 years. I am also a mother - 2 girls 12 and 18. So, I think I can speak to this issue with some wisdom.
First of all, I don't care what pop culture says, a 15 year old is a child - NOT a woman. No one is denying a woman's "right to choose" in measure 43.
Second - the argument that the Republicans and the state are pushing this down our throats is also flawed logic. First of all, it is the PEOPLE who have asked to vote on this. And it is the STATE that is pushing the agenda to keep allowing OUR daughters to make this decision without the guidance of the people who know her best and have her interests at heart.
Third - check the stats. Many of the girls seeking abortions in Oregon today are bright, involved in their schools, get reasonably good grades and have better than average relationships with their parents. It is not out of fear of harm these girls don't tell, it is our of fear of disappointing theose who love them most that they don't tell.
It is SHAME, not FEAR that drives our young daughters to abortion. They hope to sweep thei mistake under the rug and never have to tell anyone, think about it or deal with it. I know.
What these very scared young girls need is their parents' support not ignorance.
For the statistically VERY FEW girls who may be victims of molestation, there is a quick and easy bypass procedure that judges are required to give their immediate attention to.
All the girl has to do is tell the doctor she needs the bypass ruling. If she can work with the authorities to have an abortion, she should be able to work with them for a bypass.
Finally - for the very adamant blogger(s) so intent on proving to him/herself God does not live, you couldn't be more wrong. Having a tantrum about it doesn't make it so.
God is alive and he has not turned his back on you.
No mater how many mantras you cry out, it will not change the fact that he willingly gave up his life so that you could have the opportunity to live forever.
Neither you nor I deserve this gift, but Jesus did it for us anyway. There isn't anything we can do to earn his love or deserve his love. He just wants to give his love.
But, he's also a gentleman. He doesn't insist on his way, he wants you to ask him.
In response to "been there, done that":
I've also been there and done that. But I'm 17. I completely agree that parental support is needed for a teen girl who is pregnant. The sad fact is, however, that not all girls have that option. My parents are "good, strong Christian people" who won't speak to me or my boyfriend of three years because we told then that we were having sex. When I told my parents that we were having sex, (almost two years into our relationship) they pulled me out of school right before my senior year and sent me to a mennonite boarding school, forbid me to see my boyfriend and threatened to send him to jail. (he is two years older) About 3 months after I graduated and moved out I became pregnant. If you would still suggest going to my parents to ask their permission to have a medical procedure done to MY body, that will have a Huge impacton MY life, I think you're crazy. I'm not a fan of abortion. It sucks. I was devestated, but there was no way I could let my parents know that I was pregnant. There is also no way that I could give a child a life worth living right now. You say you are a christian, than you most likely believe that all infants, small children, mentally retarded people, and unborn children go to heaven right? Well, I would rather die and go to heaven than grow up in a completely poor family, (my boyfriend and I are both in college and have not finished our degrees yet,) where my grandparents hate the fact that I exist and won't speak to my parents. I'm sure you also believe that I'm going to hell for my decision.
well, I mean this when I say it: I'd rather go to hell than put a child through a shitty life right now.
People have sex. It's what people do. The problem in this state is not that so many teen girls are out having sex, not being responsible. The problem is that so many damn "christians" are out there condemning everyone who is having sex, MAKING it a shameful thing. It IS fear that drives so many girls to have abortions, fear of being condemned by their family, ect. If you think pre-marital sex is a sin, that's your thing, and I respect you for that. But don't push your moral system down everybody else's throats. "Do not Judge, and you will not be Judged." Those are Jesus' very word, look in Luke.
Measure 43 is horrible. Who in their right mind would expect a teen girl, 15-17 years old, to be able to stand in front of a judge and spill her guts to a complete stranger. Who in their right mind would leave such a life altering decision to a complete stranger?
If I could have told my parents I would have. If I could have given a child a good life I would have. But it's not the right time in my life, and my parents would have gone off the deep end. If I would not have been able to have an abortion I would have, 1)looked for other methods; I would have done anything, or 2) I would have run away with my boyfriend and had a child with him.
I'm 100% sure that my decision was the best decision made in the interest of me, my boyfriend, my parents, and yes, even the fetus inside of me.
No on 43.
I've also been there and done that. But I'm 17. I completely agree that parental support is needed for a teen girl who is pregnant. The sad fact is, however, that not all girls have that option. My parents are "good, strong Christian people" who won't speak to me or my boyfriend of three years because we told then that we were having sex. When I told my parents that we were having sex, (almost two years into our relationship) they pulled me out of school my senior year and sent me to a mennonite boarding school, forbid me to see my boyfriend and threatened to send him to jail. (he is two years older) About 3 months after I graduated and moved out I became pregnant. If you would still suggest going to my parents to ask their permission to have a medical procedure done to MY body, that will have a Huge impacton MY life, I think you're crazy. I'm not a fan of abortion. It sucks. I was devestated, but there was no way I could let my parents know that I was pregnant. There is also no way that I could give a child a life worth living right now. You say you are a christian, than you most likely believe that all infants, small children, mentally retarded people, and unborn children go to heaven right? Well, I would rather die and go to heaven than grow up in a completely poor family, (my boyfriend and I are both in college and have not finished our degrees yet,) where my grandparents hate the fact that I exist and won't speak to my parents. I'm sure you also believe that I'm going to hell for my decision.
well, I'd rather go to hell than put a child through a shitty life right now.
People have sex. It's what people do. The problem in this state is not that so many teen girls are out having sex, not being responsible. The problem is that so many damn "christians" are out there condemning everyone who is having sex, MAKING it a shameful thing. It IS fear that drives so many girls to have abortions, fear of being condemned by their family, ect. If you think pre-marital sex is a sin, that's your thing, and I respect you for that. But don't push your moral system down everybody else's throats. "Do not Judge, and you will not be Judged." Those are Jesus' very word, look in Luke.
Measure 43 is horrible. Who in their right mind would expect a teen girl, 15-17 to be able to stand in front of a judge and spill her guts to a complete stranger. Who in their right mind would leave such a life altering decision to a complete stranger?
If I could have told my parents I would have. If I could have given a child a good life I would have. But it's not the right time in my life, and my parents would have gone off the deep end. If I would not have been able to have an abortion, I would have 1)looked for other methods, I would have done anything, or 2) I would have run away with my boyfriend and had a child with him.
I'm 100% sure that my decision was the best decision made in the interest of me, my boyfriend, my parents, and yes, even the fetus inside of me.
No on 43.
I continue to wonder where all you wonderful people are coming from. Someone must have posted a link to this post somewhere, but I don't know anything about it.
So, I have three requests:
1) Please tell me how you came to this blog.
2) Please look at some of the other posts and let me know what you think of them, too.
3) Please vote no on Oregon Ballot Measure 43.
I'm voting YES, because I believe that if a teenaged girl has been raped by her father and become pregnant, it is the state's job to notify her mother that she's planning to get an abortion. And then arrest the Father. After all ... i was a product of rape and thou it was tough on my mom at first I am sure glad I was not aborted ... and so is she.
Why is it that right wing christians feel that their values and belifs are better than anyone elses? They say they care about everyone, but clearly they don't. If a young girl becomes pregnant unintentionally, she should be able to choose for herself how to deal with it. Not all young girls have strong family support. The christians trivialize the fact that young girls are raped or molested by men as much as they are. Just because a yong girl is having concentual sex, doesn't mean she knows all the facts.It happens every day. And the anti choice supporters would love to keep it that way. Don't they get that teching abstinence doesn't work? Hasn't any republican christian family ever had a child come up pregnant even after preaching abstinance? I bet so. This measure is not intended to keep anyone "safe". It is intended to be the first step in banning abortion all together. They want to force young girls to have babies, but then they refuse to support the social services needed to give them the skills and education they need to properly rasie the child. How is that helping anyone? Forcing a young girl to have a child and then forcing her to give it up for adoption becuase she can't take care of it is cruel. Just because a pregnancy was unintended, doesn't mean she won't love the child if she chooses to have it. My son was completely unintended, but I love him more than anything else in the world. However, if I would have been 10 years younger, I probably would have chosen not to have the child. This measure isn't helping anyone. A young girl shouldn't have to go in front of a judge, who may be Pro Life, and spill her guts about why she needs to have an abortion. Give me a break. Republicans and christians are nothing but a bunch of hypocritical liars as far as I am concerned. Keep your noses out of our lives. Isn't that what being a republican is supposed to be about? Practice what you preach. Go tell it on the mountain and get back to me when your "god" answers you.
Andrea
I still wonder where all these people are coming from.
I also wonder if any of the stories these "anonymous" posters are telling are true. No way to tell, is there?
Of course they are true. Mine is anyway. Also, who cares if you stay anonymous or not, no one knows your real name or real email address anyway. It was just faster to do it that way then to have to think up some catchy username. I'll think of one if it will make you happy.
Well, "John Merritt Burt" is what it says on my birth certificate, and the e-mail on my profile, john_m_burt@hotmail.com, is read by me regularly. It would be the work of but moments to look in public sources and find that my phone number is 541-753-6094 and I live at 960 SW Jefferson Avenue in Corvallis (the big white house at Tenth and Jefferson). I'm willing to stand by my opinion. Now, I don't expect everyone to embrace my standards, but I do reserve the right to point out that a post signed "anonymous" doesn't require a great deal of courage or inspire a high level of confidence in one's veracity.
I'M NOT TRYING TO REMAIN ANONYMOUSE BECUASE I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO KNOW WHAT MY NAME IS. I DID SIGN MY BLOG WITH MY REAL NAME. I AM A SINGLE WOMAN AND DON'T MAKE A HABIT OF GIVING OUT MY PERSONAL INFORMATION ON ANY WEBSITE. I'M NOT TRYING TO DISESPECT YOU OR YOUR SIGHT. I JUST HAPPEND UPON THIS SITE WHILE TRYING TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT MEASURE 43 AND I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. FORGIVE ME FOR NOT KNOWING THE PROPER ETIQUETTE FOR BLOGGING. MAYBE I CAN DO BETTER NEXT TIME. I APPLAUD YOU FOR GIVING OUT YOUR PERSONAL INFO ON YOUR PAGE, BUT YOU COULD RESPECT THE FACT THAT SOME OF US MAY BE A LITTLE MORE CAUTIOUS ABOUT THOSE TYPES OF THINGS SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO CAN MISUSE THAT INFORMATION. I WOULD PREFER TO NOT GET A MILLION EMAILS ONMY PERSONAL EMAIL SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR COMPLETE STRANGERS TO HAVE THAT INOFRMATION. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS NOT A PUBLICE ADDRESS AND I DON'T USE IT THAT WAY. FRANKLY I FIND YOUR COMMENTS A LITTLE RUDE. IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE USING YOUR SITE ANONYMOUSLY AMYBE YOU SHOULD BLOCK THEM.
wow, all I can think of right now are my two fifteen year old girls...One of whom has had four different outfits on in the last thirty minutes because "I just can't decide". I know this is "trivial" like the tattoo thing, but it does illustrate the problem with a girl that age making a decision on her own. If you can't choose clothing, how on earth do you make a LIFE ALTERING decision? Oh and can we leave God out of it? This should not be a religious discussion. I found this blog when I googled measure 43, after seeing the sighs on the side of the road.
IT IS A RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION. IT SHOULDN'T BE. BUT IT IS. THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS ALWAYS THROWING GOD INTO EVERYTHING THEY BEIEVE IN. "GOD TOLD ME THIS, GOD TOLD ME THAT." LOOK AT PAT ROBERTSON. OUR OWN PRESIDENT SAID GOD TOLD HIM TO INVADE IRAQ. I HATE TO BE THE BEARER OF BAD NEWS, BUT HE IS NOT A PROPHET. I'M SURE GOD IS TELLING HIM THAT HE IS. GIVE ME A BREAK. AS SOON AS THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT STOP THROWING GOD AROUND SO WILL THE LIBERALS. GET IT? WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR WHAT YOU THINK OR WHAT RELIGION YOU ARE. JUST DON' TRY TO SHOVE YOUR BELIEFS ON EVERYONE ELSE. THIS IS STILL A FREE COUNTRY AS FAR AS I KNOW. NOT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY IS A CHRISTIAN AND WE ARE STILL FREE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT OR NOT TO IF WE CHOOSE. GOD GAVE MAN FREE WILL TO THINK AND CHOOSE WHAT WE WANT RIGHT? OH YEAH, UNLESS THE CHRISTIANS DON'T AGREE WITH IT. IF GOD MADE EVERYONE, HE MADE LIBERALS TOO. DEAL WITH IT, GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON. HOPEFULLY YOUR 15 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER IS NOT HAVING SEX BECASUE YOU TALK TO HER ABOUT THE RISKS OF NOT ONLY UNINTENDED PREGNANCY, BUT ALSO STD'S. BUT THE QUESTION IS, IF SHE DID GET PREGNANT FROM A RAPE, WOULD YOU FORCE HER TO CARRY A BABY SHE DIDN'T WANT AND MAKE HER GO THROUGH AND ENTIRE PREGANCY AND THEN FORCE HER TO GIVE THE CHILD UP FOR ADOPTION OR WOULD YOU RAISE IT? THINK ABOUT THAT. THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS. NOT ALL 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS HAVE A GOOD SUPPORT SYSTEM. IF A YOUNG GIRL IS RAPED, IT'S A HARD CHOICE TO MAKE. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. IF SHE IS FORCED TO HAVE THE CHILD, GIVE HER THE SOCIAL SERVICES AND SKILLS SHE NEEDS TO RAISE THE CHILD DON'T FORCE HER TO GIVE IT UP. IF IT ISN'T A RAPE, AND SHE DECIDES TO KEEP IT, THE SAME RULES SHOULD APPLY. GIVE THEM THE HELP THEY NEED. THEY MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX, THEY GOT PREGNANT AND IF THEY CHOOSE TO KEEP THE CHILD, HELP THEM, DON'T PERSECUTE THEM OR FORCE THEM TO GIVE IT UP.
IF A YOUNG GIRL BECOMES PREGNANT AND WANTS TO KEEP THE BABY AND HER PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN WANTS HER TO HAVE AN ABORTION CAN SHE BE FORCED TO HAVE AN ABORTION AGAINST HER WILL? I DOUBT IT. THE RIGHT WILL HAVE YOU TO BELIEVE THAT THE PARENT IS ALWAYS THE ONE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE. I DOUBT IF THEY CAUGHT WIND OF A SITUATION LIKE THIS THAT THEY WOULD BE ON THE PARENTS SIDE. WHAT SAY YOU?
Why is everybody shouting all of a sudden?
My name is Amber and I found this blog after googling Measure 43 when I moved to Oregon for college. I was raped when I was a freshman in high school- I was fifteen. I still have not even had to the strength to tell my parents that I was raped but had I become pregnant I would have had the child because there is another option other than abortion- and it has yet to be mentioned in the blog really- ADOPTION. A fetus is as much a baby when it is in the growing inside the body as it is when it is born- a new born baby knows nothing beyond that it exists, the same is true of the fetus. From my understanding of measure 43 it would only mean that the parents have to be notified that the girl wants to have an abortion. If that girl was in a situation where they werent even living with her parnents or what not then she could get emancipated. Abortion should be the absolute last option if it is even an option. There is no reason that you cannot just have the baby and give it up for adoption- there are plenty of people who want children, especially new born babies, that would be more than willing to take the child. Do not end the child's life just because the mother doesnt feel she can handle it. It isn't fair to anyone especially if caring parents dont know about it. I know from experience that keeping something like this from your parents is almost if not harder than telling them.
My name is Holly. i found this by googling measure 43 after seeing a sign on the side of the road that said "protect our teen girls" I tried to get immancipated when I was 15, and it was almost impossible. The requirements are way too harsh, it's almost impossible for a 15 year old. And it takes six months at the BARE minimum to prove to the courts that you can support yourself. By that time the girl would be two or three months away from having the baby. Often times a girl wants an abortion because she can't tell her parents or other people she is pregnant, making her wait that long would defeat the purpose. Immancipation would not be a way around measure 43.
I wasn't saying that emancipation would be a way around abortion but if there is an issue- that was mentioned in a previous blog- where someone wasnt living with their parents and was worried about this then they should be emancipated. However if you do get pregnant you should have the baby and give it up for adoption. Abortion should be the VERY LAST OPTION if you even consider it. You must to was is right for all lives involved, not just your own.
I would gladly vote YES on Measure 43 - but for one lack in the wording of the measure. If a notification is required to HER parent(s), then let's also require notification to HIS.
The very idea that the female stands alone in this mess is offensive to me, and should be to every other woman contemplating how to vote on this. For now, I'm voting a resounding NO.
And the conversation, such as it is, continues:
http://john_m_burt.blogspot.com/2006/10/oregon-ballot-measure-43-nightmare.html
Hahahaa!!! This one is going DOWN! The point so many people fail to GET is that not all families are anywhere near perfect. LIFE isn't perfect. If a girl chooses to have an abortion and later regrets it, well-- thats sad but better to have the choice then not to. It's the religious right again trying to chip away at Roe vs. Wade. Rape, incest or not a girl should be able to do as she chooses. Stupid religious people, unless you are ready to take in pregnant homeless and abused girls, stfu!!!!!!!
The GOVERNMENT should not be in this business anyway. Why do we look to the government to take care of these things? If this had passed, there would have been more girls dying from coathanger 1950's style abortions. HELLO! We don't need the government to solve all our problems!
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